HRW in Saudi

Human Rights Watch was recently allowed entry to the kingdom to observe the justice system (we have a system?). Here is what the local Arabnews is saying about the visit. The HRW fact finding mission even met with the our beloved muttawa.  I know that HRW has to be diplomatic since this is the first time they are officially allowed to conduct a seemingly extensive human rights research on Saudi soil, and to them this by itself is a great step forward. Let’s wait and see what will come out of it, my guess: a report. Knowing  our country's  lack of real commitment to reform with regard to human rights issues, I don't expect much out of this visit.

And in other news:

After Nawaf Obaid published this article in the Washington Post, apparently unauthorized by the Saudi government, he got kicked out from his post as a security adviser to the royals.

Comments

[Lawrence of Arabia]

as you mentioned, the fact they are even there is a big step for riyadh. i cannot even imagine what the conversation with the muttawa must have been like. wishing for the best...

LoA

[Lawrence of Arabia]

as you mentioned, the fact they are even there is a big step for riyadh. i cannot even imagine what the conversation with the muttawa must have been like. wishing for the best...

LoA

[Sunrunner]

My personal opinion is that while the Saudi Gov doesn't *really* (or perhaps it would be more accurate that very powerful factions of it) care about human rights, they do care an awful lot about their image.

I am wondering if they are hoping to use the *report* to justify making some of the changes that they would like to make to clean up this image (I can't believe that they actually care whether women drive or not, for instance).

Speaking of bad PR, look at this story being carried on the AP wires today: Saudis reportedly funding Iraqi Sunnies (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_insurgency_saudi)

"Private Saudi citizens are giving millions of dollars to Sunni insurgents in
Iraq and much of the money is used to buy weapons, including shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, according to key Iraqi officials and others familiar with the flow of cash.

Saudi government officials deny that any money from their country is being sent to Iraqis fighting the government and the U.S.-led coalition.

But the U.S. Iraq Study Group report said Saudis are a source of funding for Sunni Arab insurgents."

[Abu Sinan]

The US often provides cover the Saudis in Human Rights reports and Religious Rights reports. Lets hope they are allowed to report the facts and not be pressured by the governments involved.

As to Saudis funding Iraqi Sunnis, that is the order of the day! The Sunni population in Saudi, some 85%, to the 15% Shi'a population, are very afraid of growing influence of the Shi'a.

In my experience with Saudis, I have found that anti-Shi'a prejudice is widespread, amoungst people that I would even consider liberal. It is interesting when a person does pray, fast, or observe any of the basics of Islam, yet so hates the Shi'a. I dont understand it.

But expect this to grow. If there is a full scale civil war, it will become at least a proxy war between the Sunni governments in the area, ie Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Shi'a governments and their allies, ie Iran, Syria.

What I wonder is what happens to the Sunni groups in the area with Shi'a backing, ie Hamas, and what role do groups like Hizb'Allah take?

[Northern shewolf]

It has been known for quite some time that Saudis are funding the insurgents, so this is stating the obvious. The main reason for their munificence is that they are understandably loath to have the mayhem spill over their borders, and the fact that Shiites are the majority in Iraq with large militias that are funded and given tactical support from Iran, is an object of great worry. There was an article published on Nov. 29/06 in the Washington Post by Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi who wrote that his Govt. will not sit still if the US should withdraw. The idea being that they would flood the market place with petrol at bargain basement prices, to cripple the Iranian economy, as well as sending funds and proxies into Iraq. Of course this was written as an op-ed, the opinion of the writer... This at first glance would seem a foolish plan, but as we have come to a dire crossroads of this conflict, I believe that the Saudis are signaling that they will not stand for a regional state of war, for which they are ill prepared. Abu Sinan is correct when saying that the absolute hatred in between Sunnis and Shiites plays into the fear of all Saudis vis a vis Iran's major player role in this.
And as to the Sunni groups in areas dominated by Shia backed factions (Hamas & Hizbullah), the old Arab aphorism does apply big time: "The Ennemy of my ennemy is my friend." All conflicts have their fair shares of strange bedfellows!

[Abu Sinan]

Obaid has left his job, at the bhest of higher ups in the establishment, but he was just saying what everyone knows anyways.

It is interesting, but I feel that the Hizb'Allah action against Israel this summber actually made things harder for the Sunni leaders to try and stir up the Sunni masses against the Shi'a.

It is clear to most Arabs, at least the ones I know here in the States and the Middle East, that the Sunni leaders, ie both King Abd'Allahs and the leaders of UAE, Kuwait, Egypt are all US tools.

This summer showed how the Sunni masses can and will get behind Shi'a who are actually doing something, whether you agree with what is being done or not. At least they are doing something, whereas all of the Sunni leaders want to do is to keep on taking American money and paying lip service to the Palestinian cause.

These leaders showed how out of step they were with their own communities. In places in Saudi even they had small protests with people holding signs supporting Hizb'Allah. In places around the Middle East, Sunni strongholds, Nasrallah has become a sort of hero for Sunnis.

I am not sure how long this solidarity with Sunni and Shi'a against Sunni leaders would last in the face of all out sectarian warfare, but I think the leaders of these Sunni countries are far more worried about the "Shi'a threat" than the people themselves are, save for the extreme Salafee types, and even those, ie the Muslim Brotherhood came out in support of Hizb'Allah.

As for me, I feel nothing but friendship and warmth for my Shi'a brothers and sisters. Sure, I dont agree with some of their religious doctrine, but that is fine, we are all Muslim.

I am proud to say I have Shi'a friends and I am proud to say that I can, and have, defended the Shi'a and their right to their religious beliefs, in my personal life and amoungst the people I know.

The story of the modern Muslim world is that of Muslims being far too worried about stabbing each other in the back, whether it is Syrian against Lebanese or Shi'a against Sunni, to see that their countries, their leadership and their resources are being stolen from underneath them.

Time for that to stop.

[al_miller]

Time for that to stop but it won't. If there were only two Muslims left they would be stabbing each other in the back. Everyone is always a victim and victims require vengeance

[Burberry Outlet Online]

The story of the modern Muslim world is that of Muslims being far too worried about stabbing each other in the back,